here in sunny Singapore with my friend Joe lale his first company palente here was in the hexagon on Page Mill road, 1500 remember that yeah the whole place for doing like a $150 a foot I remember on page mail it cost nothing it cost nothing right it was totally affordable you you can't easily do the garage startup in Silicon Valley anymore in the same way now I was talking about this my friend in biotech everything just got fat too because there was too much money you don't actually need to spend nearly as much money as we do on some of these things that's one of the things I'm working on right now I teach people is like you don't need to have like 200 people at your biotech company using like all the really high-end prepackaged stuff like there's ways of doing things cheaper and scrappier probably useful that's right it's like you know the uh with biotech kits kits can get really expensive it's like difference roughly between making your own coffee and pre-made coffee I run ABC we build lots of companies but there's all sorts of opportunities and fixing Health Care fixing things in defense like I like to go I like to run towards the broken things in society I think that's what a Leader's job is to do is that the things everyone else is running towards are usually the popular things those usually aren't that broken there's all these things that are broken about the US Smith andth no it's drugs too and and and you talk about this a lot so so the question is let's actually acknowledge these things let's run towards them and let's fix them yeah that that's one of my passions right now the university system is broken let's build a new one and teach how to do it better right so there's there's that's that's what we're trying to do we're trying to be leaders in the US and and I love it and you know I I think you know there's there has to be criticism but there has to be constructive criticism where your alternative has to be better than the existing thing and and you have to learn how to build I mean this is why America is a great country is we get together and we create things and we build things and we try things yes and rather than rather than just like saying everything's broken well what's your answer let's get together let's fix it that's the that's the energy that comes from the Innovation world that you and I are part of I'm an entrepreneur uh founded Palante here founded adapar of 2009 which is also a large global company leader in wealth management technology started open goov which you were an early investor and supported is also great unicorn sporting thousands of governments and you know I built a bunch of companies and a lot of people who work for me started building companies so I started helping them have hvc is one of the larger more successful Venture funds we've done kind of seven big funds now and uh you know there's a lot of things you can solve with entrepreneurship I think entrepreneurship is the best way to fix society and what's the toal AUM of ABC now it's like uh I think we've raised a total about $7 billion between all the funds give or take we have like seven core funds a couple follow on funds some spvs um so that's that's that's Capital AUM is much higher you get to count the markups we've raised about7 million and we' done well so APC is a big fund we build a lot of things and then turns out you can't solve every problem with entrepreneurship so I have my policy Institute I have the university and you know to try to be a leader in US Society yes and actually that's a really deep point which is um I think you and I got to that realization maybe maybe a little bit sooner than the broader Tech Community but folks have realized you can't do everything with technology you need some policy you need some Politics as well right talk about your your thinking I love the I love the Javier mle quote in Argentina this like crazy guy who it to over Argentina is very exciting and he's basically saying like the way Milton Freeman said this your social role is to make profit as an entrepreneur that's correct but you also need to try to make sure socialists don't take over your country you need both of those right you you need both to make profit but also to keep your government and your Society functional and you know what I love about this is lots of folks who are socialists that say you have a social responsibility as an entrepreneur and so on and I agree the social responsibility is keep out the Socialists social responsibility is make sure these people who don't do things based on Merit don't do things based on functionality who are who are breaking things when they get in power to keep them out Thomas Jefferson he actually believed in the in public education a lot it was actually controversial you know why you want to public education to teach them about Liberty teach them to St demagogues and despots right so that the whole point of public education is to teach people not to allow what we call today socialists jealous of Liberty right exactly that is the one like like he said you know public university is different University is the elite in the University you have to train the elite to understand our history our great debates uh like really be ready to to to run run a free Society they're not in charge of society but they're still in charge of government in a free Society that's one thing but it's another thing just the masses in general the number one thing is make sure they don't get corrupted and make sure they support Liberty and then we've totally lost that under education you know the thing about this is uh you know we'll put up a graph which shows the speaking level of like us presence have you seen that graph they they've gotten a lot Dumber a lot Dumber since the age of Jefferson and Hamilton and so I wish I could talk like these guys I read them all the time I love going back read the primary cources but they're a lot more sophisticated than we are yeah it's actually the thing that's here's the thing that I I I haven't fully squared the circle right the you know when the us became independent it was like about like 1.6 million people something like that it was a few million people Patrick enery speech three millions of people are of the Holy cause of Liberty and such Nation as we possess okay there you go remember so so it's like it's like in the single digit Millions right and a lot of these guys were in their 20s they were they were actually quite young a lot of the F do you know about that like the of course they're the entrepreneurs they're in their 20s and 30s exactly they're all startup guys younger than we are than we I know we got to get on it well well some of them Ben Frank was a little bit older there's there's so yes exactly that's right that's right so that shows that when there was a frontier and there were young talented people in a relatively small group of things you could start the greatest startup in in world history right which is the United States of America so the thing though that I don't get is uh and this will sound stupid but but me sometimes asking the stupid questions no inet right no ability to look up references you had to read everything on pen and paper right there weren't that many books printed but they were all really well read and they were all constantly reading what's going on yeah like everyone basically like the men who were running Society like there's this thing called the London magazine have you ever seen London magazine no I love this it's it's a it's like the combination of like 10 of our top magazines all in one like the Atlantic and all these things and like and then people would read it in London they'd read it all over the Americas and like you'd have like Lord North arguing with uh Benjamin Franklin and the pages and and it would it would show you here's what happened in Parliament here's like this war going on you have a fold out map of the war there'd be like hard math problems like you have math and physics problems here and like this is what the gentleman of the time all read I collected as a kid I read all of these so so this is the thing that I don't I feel that there's a piece of the past that at least I don't fully understand which is on you know looking up a reference for example is actually relatively easy to do on the internet you can use scub or lip gen or something like that and I do that a lot and that's how I learn things if you had to go to the library and look up a card catalog it's like it takes a thousand X or literally a million x as long to look that up so how and there are fewer books and so so how are they so well read I don't actually understand that part of this is a very it's just so the Roman analog I think is very important like every great man in Rome would read like Livy and read like Virgil read horse there was a there's a cultural Foundation that was shared right and that and they had a it was different one now when you come to americaas but it was the same set of like cultural foundations where you Library there's a standard library that every want to have everyone read an educated man would would have this history of the West and that was and that was like their reference set so when you go back to all the speeches of these guys you go back to all the conversations they're all referencing not just things from the Bible but things from Rome things from the Glorious Revolution and British history and you know the Magna Carta things from you know parts of French history like there's all certain of things they would study they'd all know yeah you know this is funny because you know I made that analogy to the standard library of like python or something like that right you know wasting it's a nice play on words right um and and and I wonder if it's actually somewhat not just a play on words something deeper than that in the following sense if uh in you know python or any language you type in something which you haven't defined yet you get an error right so the words actually need to be defined in order for you to use them in in in a program or or with you know another program so in the same way if people aren't familiar with certain Concepts like oh you know uh Plato wasn't a fan of democracy and democracy has alter other meanings or you know the concept of despotism and if if they don't even have these vocabulary words then the program crashes they didn't install those words at the top of the program you know so that in a sense um we're thinking about education you know and you're doing K through 12 I'm I'm fing you know stuff like synthesis and um you know I did this network see conference with parallel education track so we're both interested in this kind of stuff you're also got the University of Austin right which uh I think I'm going to be giving some talks or something there right one way thinking about it is these are almost like a standard library and then what kinds of things do we want them to do Downstream we need to make sure they have the standard Library how the concepts even go there which is yeah which right see liment kind of like gave that to the to the to the men of America at that time which created the revolution so what what are the what's the modern version of the Enlightenment what are the types of things you need to be doing yeah make sure everyone reads bology right well okay or teal or you know PJ you know right I think I think we've we are you know one of the things that's funny is on Twitter they'll they'll kind of make fun or something they'll be like oh why do all these Tech Guys become philosophers or and I actually thought about why and I've got a couple answers I wanted to hear your thoughts so one is um every founder starts as lead engineer and ends up as Chief Psych right because you're managing a team of people and now what matters is yeah certainly the engineering matters and whatnot but also their emotions what's in their heads and how groups of humans interact with each other and all the crazy things that happen out of that which is different than how groups of machines interact it's true I mean I think a lot of the truly greatest Founders they're Chief psychology but they actually are like I have a one of my friends who's built the biggest private company in the US he calls himself Chief philosophy officer so he's he was CEO for a long time but placed himself and became like the chief philosophy officer and he writes books on philosophy as well not a tech guy but but you know someone is and it's and is basically like like how do you take how people work how Society works and how do you imbue your company with that he's he's all about like maso's maso's philosophy of self-actualization the hard you needs the very highest one is to self-actualize right how do you help everyone in your company self-actualize in a way that's aligned you know with creating value and there's things like that which is really important and you know the thing about it is you know even though people think oh uh and again to engage some of the they'll say why do Tech guys always want to make Tech analogies for everything and actually one of the things I talked about in the never shate book is we can see the birth and life and death of companies in like a five or 10 or 15E window and you and I have now run you know hundreds probably thousands of experiments take all of our investments and add all of them up right and so you you start to see patterns in the life cycles of organizations that all the only thing that's larger than that are countries right and countries start spanning over the life of hundreds of years whereas companies are in the tens of years or 20s of years or decade there's one thing largely in countries which is civilization civilizations right like India China a lot of my a lot of my favorite thinking is like these books on the history of civilizations funny I've got we've got a few back here I mean quid Le's evolution of civilizations I always found very useful because he talks about how you know you have to have mixed things from different backgrounds almost like the different types of Enlightenment type things where you have new kind of set of Primitives that come together and cultures a mix and then it grows and there's and then there's these like things that help it grow but the things that help it grow become special interests over time and then and then things start existing for the sake of the special interest themselves and that's when it starts to Decay and then it gets invaded again but it's it's fascinating to watch how like almost all of these civilizations as well see them happen as fast forward with the companies get it gets captured things get captured over time and they become decadent right and and and then the question is can you renew it and can you teach enough people in society okay we're going to go against this thing that's capturing it got to go against these interests and we're going to make it for the interest for all again is what Javier m is trying to do in Argentina it's right I I believe some people you know they're trying to do in the US as well by going against the broken bureaucracies you know and the thing about it is that is possible because if we look at you know people talk about the rise and fall of the Roman Empire but it wasn't just a strict you know rise and fall sign it wasn't a parabola the trajectory is much more complicated than that with many reversals and so on before the final collapse and before 76 so I think a better metaphor is not a sine wave but a stock price right for not just just like you have it for a company do we have it for a country could it could be population it could be GDP it could be real estate footprint so the Ottoman Empire collapses and loses a lot of real estate footprint and that's like you know a stock price dropping 95% right and so there's there's there's some folks like you know turchin do you know the on the guy so there's folks who are doing more in the way of quantitative history do is doing a little bit of it Peter turch in um the guys who were doing the fourth turning have done kind of a verbal version of it and I feel like uh trying to quantify these things is always a really good thing to do with the social sciences the smartest guys try to do that I smart yeah and so I think with some of the AI stuff now in particular you can take all of the written materials on Ancient Rome and you know Google engram you can do stuff like that you can see when they were saying certain words and others for example you go to Google engram here's a fun experiment if you type in Republic and democracy you see that early American Founders talk about the US in terms of a Republic and the term democracy only is ramped up in the 20th centur I know I like Republic much better by the way Master democracy doesn't work all our Founders do Mastery is a bad idea well it's funny it's it's different the the the the quickest way I can establish that to somebody is I say okay if there was a global vote okay 96% of the world is non-american is that vote going to go the way that the US government wants to go no it's not going to go the way see this with the UN all the time which is a bunch of dictators get together and and do terrible things right and so the thing is can you be the quote champion of democracy if most of the world is not on your side right or at least you have to reinterpret what democracy means in that I I think it's I think it's a terrible word to use for this and a lot of the dumbest foreign policy America has done has been trying to spread democracy to places that that're first of all we don't want Democrats we want republics and second all those places weren't even set up for us with that said I think and so like you know some examples a lot of the stuff in terms of trying to democratize the Middle East a lot of stuff actually interesting thing there's this book um by Eon gillo on uh Narco terrorism in South America right and and in Mexico in particular it's called like El Narco and he makes a point you know it actually evidently led to the drug war there the old like I think the PRI was able to keep the lid on drugs and and so on the introduction of competitive elections is actually what spurred the drug war how's that so basically because factions started to realize oh I can bribe the guy on the other side cardal were so powerful they were able to actually bribe people and and get in power uh Barbara Walter has a book called How Civil Wars start and she actually comes to a very similar conclusion totally different person and and she's she's actually not looking at South America she's like it's when you have something that's in what she calls the intermediate range between a quote full democracy and an autocracy that you have the maximum amount of chaos okay and now I interpret what she's saying in a somewhat different way which is a quote full democracy by what she's saying is something where it's basically under the control of the US government this was like the old McDonald's thing you know like how two countries with a McDonald's and then will go that means if they both have McDonald's they basically have enough American influence that they're underp America so they've got a dispute resolver that that that was why they weren't fing as they were under PX America exactly so it wasn't the local voting it was the global non-voting you know right as that's a different interpretation that's like what Curtis talks about and conly the quotee autocracies were stable for a different reason because they had built some non-local you know whether it's um MBS or whether it's uh you know China they had built a non-local you know pyramid or whatever right and at least at least stable for some these are deceptively stable and then not they correct because they will hide the internal conflict and it burst forward right and then then you've got the things in the middle like democra you know like sedam was actually more stable than the war zone that it became in the 2000s and early 2010s like Isis and so on and so forth so anyway turns out Anar anarchism is not a good for when you Iran on your border throwing in a mess totally exactly right so lots of words actually get sort of rebranded to be both X and its opposite for example Christianity meant both the Revolutionary Christianity that tore down the Roman Empire and the hierarchal Christianity that butress the Holy Roman EMP you know now I recognize those aren't continuous things that there's a gap in between and so but still there's something interesting where like you had the concept of Christian king after you know like Christianity attacked the Roman Empire right and then you know communism meant at one point tearing everything down but now in China communism is a hierarchical top- down total control thing and even the children of the top officials are called what princelings yeah right so went from revolutionary to ruling class ideology and actually have a bunch of the examples this the reason I just say that is when some can mean both X and its opposite you know so democracy is interesting where it can mean like you know oh the uh you know people are voting and it's all good but it can mean populism politics and they're mad at it and it's bad people shouldn't have a say it should be enlightened bureaucrats that do that and then you know there's there's one wrinkle I talk about is uh to go from 51% democracy to 100% democracy so 51% is where we currently have where're 49% are really mad that they didn't get to vote for the guy they didn't consent they didn't get consent to the government 100% democracy is everybody goes and moves to let's say Starbase Texas right which is elon's New City where they moved to one of the new startup cities that we're looking at funding you know culdesac in Arizona and everybody has consent to be there and they've consented to enter essentially the jurisdiction of you know a CEO that's running that territory which is done totally legally by the way and now because they've consented to be there they they literally sign a social smart contract upon entry and so because you have a higher level of consent then people can do things together and everyone's a lot happier and they get what they want on average a lot more exactly now the other thing about it is 100% democracy is actually also .1% democracy and what do I mean by that so you know a lot of people say oh these crazy ideas on governance and so on Network stat that's say we're going to go Main Street I say it doesn't need to go Main Street and the reason is there's 8 billion people in the world you need a very few of us to do it exactly 0.1% is 800,000 people 800,000 people is like actually would be like the 30th largest un country or something like 40th largest okay 800,000 people so 0.01% democracy every minority group that can organize enough to can get their own City or their own State potentially anyway so this some of the stuff I love I love that you're bringing this back up for the world to follow this stuff is he you know I I introduced Peter to Patrick frean originally and you know I was the original chairman of the C setting intitute my very first video which is the only thing you would find when you search for me like for YouTube Five Years on YouTube was like me on like Glen Beck talking about seing which was actually quite embarrassing for a while because it was like sh but you know I was I'm proud of that I been involved that no I like actually I love what you and patri and Peter did on that because and patri has talked about this like the path of seas sitting people got really fixated on oh it's on the water and so but the point was competitive government yeah the point was like the point was like let's have a new government I when I started paler I could have gone tried to work for IBM and fix IBM or something like that right that's probably would not have been a very good use of my time on a relative basis and and like you know I'll admit um I am I am trying to fix government in the US have to stay in fightball as you so so so I respect that I respect and it turns out it turns out America is like way less broken than almost everywhere else is my view this is where we may disagree a little bit right but but I you actually can go into States you can like partner with Governors you can pass laws you can show the things work and you can inspire people I've done this now you know cyos in 15 states we're getting dozens of laws past you can put accountability incentives cut the waste like get rid of broken things and and then we're going to teach people that and go to the National level now it's going to be a big battle but so so way I'm trying to do this now at the same time I would love there to be like a Singapore for the US to learn from exactly Closer Closer To America that'd be great that's right so so the way I think about it is I think you can be Saia or you can be Satoshi just don't be Steve bomber okay well him he100 billion that's true this true true so of course Steve bomber if you're watching this I don't I I still respect will still take your money yeah yeah yeah I Bean like you know I have nothing againsts it's hard the thing about it is you know just in defense of stomber before a critique is it's hard to run something like Microsoft right to even keep it stable for like 10 years it's really hard there may have been things that they put in place to ended up working later but Sai was really needed to make a lot of these things work yeah exactly right so so it's one of those things it's kind of like people saying oh that NBA player sucks well okay maybe maybe he wasn't scoring well was pretty hard to be an NBA player right it's it's it's pretty tough that's right but basically the point is that Satoshi is totally exit building a new system seia is patiently wait and work your way through the bureaucracy to execute the turnaround the I wouldn't say patiently wait I'd say I I basically think it's like go to war against the broken bureaucracy it's like it's like it's like you got to be an internal Warrior you know the good yeah well FIA is far and you might know him better than me um I think he's a better Diplomat than Elon I don't know if he's necessarily more patient with broken things because it's it's it's different right yeah yeah well just because you don't see him yelling at them and being the crazy guy doesn't mean he's not really Fierce just in a different way this is what's actually really interesting like basically his book had refresh and so like I think especially with this recent open ad thing right where within 48 hours they had announced a deal like to catch and field a ball like that over the weekend he's obviously super intense he's super intense right like that's really hard to he is at War he's CL They At War Elon is a war he is a war too they they I think I think to be the CEO of Microsoft that it gets that position you have to be a diplomat in a way that Elon doesn't have to be because Elon elon's a different type of game's exactly but it's it's unusual for somebody to se is like Deng xia ping in my in my view because somebody who is diplomatic enough to work their way up but then courageous enough to do those kinds of things at the senior levels usually what happens is the guy who's diplomatic enough I won't need names but folks are diplomatic enough to work their way up no but the wrong person R they're never bull when they exactly they're too bureaucrat the problem well the problem is is that is that we're all humans and our nature is that if you have to be a certain way for a long time you like change you become that way yeah so this is something that I'm I'm always determined I always want to be a revolutionary as a kid yeah and I I started like as many companies as anyone else that are big so I love that but but I am trying to work within the system because it's so W but you always got to make sure and program yourself not to get captured by it and start like going with what they want right and and the thing is I'm glad that you were in a sense uh it's one of these things where I think we're going to need both approaches yeah and it's very important go ahead having a few of us on the inside is useful exactly and and I think like so what I'm doing is I am obviously you know I'm in Singapore but I'm also investing a lot India in fact I just had a tweet on this that um the uh the Prime Minister retweeted M slowly following you that's right it's good and and what I want to do is you know I think a lot of Americans now recognize that India is sort of back on the world stage it's like it's executing out we we are bullish on India India India is in an amazing position you know I've I I've always hired people there I I of course to but to like but to put it differently like 20 years ago or maybe 15 years ago when I was hiring people there if I'm totally honest F like body years ago yeah it was like it was like you pass the easy well to find problems to them now for some of my teams for adapar for opengov for other companies we we give them the hard problems yes right and and and not only that like I've taken there's like you know companies like people were at Fresh Works left and started rocket Lane and were very proud big investors very early there and and there's there there's I mean r series aex I love the do more series HX C I'm very bullish on it the thing about that is I feel it's still it's it's funny I don't mean it's in purely a market sense but I do think India is underpriced on the world stage people don't people don't realize how important it's going to be over a 10 15E Horizon this like clearly going to be le a dominant part of the world that it's going to be extremely wealthy and people still think of India as poor which it kind of is it is but it's improving but if you kind of see where it's going it's like cloudly going to be a very wealthy very powerful country yeah and I think you know here's my I I love to hear your take on this and so my my view is um there's about like seven million Indians in the diaspora it's actually not that rather no yeah well there must be more than that so so rather in I should be more clear in the US UK Canada Australia okay right so yeah exactly right and there's more in like Saudi Arabia and in Dubai a lot of important Indians in the Middle East for sure I have man who run things there too that's right Eng feere it's only 7even million though even it seems like it was more because you guys are running like all big te we're doing all right basically so here's my my view is that if there's 7 million abroad who are doing this well there's 1.4 billion Indians total if you even say now obviously the group ofroad are select subsets and they proba have some advantages on average from who they are totally right because it's hard to do all the immigration but let's say you say and this is a guesstimate anywhere between 1 to 5% of India can play at that same level I think that's probably reasonable I think that's very very reasonable say yeah so there 5% that's 70 million people so whatever the Indian diaspora is doing now 10x that it's amazing and that's a real that's a really big thing right gotta be like India and in frankly the world needs India because we need more Innovation the world we need more more wealth we need more people solving problems we need more good guys I I think you know I mean basically even though India is a cousin of rather than a sibling of like Europe and the west and so that's why uh it does share a certain set of you know what I call it now is I call it internet values did I talk to you about this so here here's here's the theories it's like many many years ago people used to talk about Europe in terms of like Christendom right and that was used to delineate it was like an explicitly religious conception a religious but a set of values the set of values that's right and then that became the more secular concept of the West which included America which was more geographical more secular as quasa geographical right like the west and and by by the way even as a Jew I do appreciate christiandom there was the Savage world out there back then right yeah was there was like there good stuff overall yeah and Judaism is adjacent to Christianity you know what it is and they were I mean they were nasty to us in Europe a lot but on a relative basis Christian was like a good part of the world sure right and so so that cona of the West now one of the reasons I've been thinking aot lot about this is if you know you or I we speak at Tech conferences we're all the place around the world and you know I I was just at like a some event whether it's in Dubai or Singapore or South Korea or something like that and they're play go ahead was just funny you don't know it's Dubai or South Korea you're all over the place all over the place right because crypto in particular is global right and uh you know there's somebody on stage and they were talking about you know free speech and free markets but they were of non-western descent and they had a non-western accent and there was a group of non rers but everybody's noding right I love it and so what I realized is I was like okay eventually I was able to put a phrase on it what we actually believe in is internet values as like sort of the V3 you know you go from Christendom to Western values to internet values my internet values that's a phrase I'm using now maybe I can come up with an even better one right indry values technology values what does that mean that's peerto peer it's freedom of speech it's free markets it's open source it is Fair competition it's meritocracy it's capitalism it's property rights it is but it's also you know opportunity for anybody yeah right it is taking a bet on somebody who has no name it can't seeing them level up it's fundamentally a classically liberal philosophy it's classically liberal but it's like the sort of muscular 21st century version of that right and when I say intrate values everybody nods and they're like I get they instantly kind of get what I'm saying they know that is acceleration and growth versus deceleration and degrowth that's right and so you could only say what something is by what it's not you know who's against internet values Washington DC and Beijing right many of them there many of them there many of the bureaucrats many of the bureaucrats they're for internet censorship they're for you know filtering bans you know all this kind of they want to ban compute they want to regulate this they want to throttle that they want to go after jackmon Elon Musk they want to make us safe they want to sa if they want to give up they want to give up liberty for safety exactly what our Founders said not today exactly that's right so internet values I feel is the right like sort of term that groups a lot of people together you kind of want that right free sometimes as like an umbrella term and uh the digital right we did believe that in person was very important but but but andp with the Yellen hor directly but you're right the internet framework is key that's right and even every area for education for example eii tutoring is going to be a big deal for law it's smart contracts it's automation of legal work with AI for medicine it is there's a zillian AI the digital now hits so many different areas that if you don't have the internet first internet values perspective on things that's something actually where you can bring in a broad Coalition internet values doesn't exclude India it doesn't exclude like uh Tech Guys in in Japan but you know what it does exclude it ex this is the other flip side of it unfortunately a lot of people who are geographically or physically in the west don't believe in Western values they hate Western vales there's a lot of them there's a lot of them right so the guy like a small example is the guy who's smashing you see the self-driving car like the guy who attacked self-driving car with a hammer that's so crazy so stupid okay I can't believe they won and turned it off in San Francisco they won exactly it's terrible so this is the thing is my view is that Coalition is at least strong enough to push things back in the garage now this this is what this is this is this is what I do I have to fight these guys we need to bring in backup right actually one way I I was actually able to say this is like so in San Francisco there's a big mural of somebody and they're not actually a San Franciscan do you know what I'm talking about I think I saw you post this is Greta thunberg right yes she's like that motto of like Global decel deceleration deow exactly and that gives the game away because she's not San Franciscan she's not even American right she's on the other side of the world but then it gives the game away that like woke and deceleration and whatever you want to call Global Coalition of deceleration yeah exactly it's not about a country it's about this Global movement it really is like the forces of evil versus the forces of good and we have to be like clear there's light and there's darkness in the world and like I don't think people realize how much like degrowth means Darkness like if we have no growth world that is a world full of War like you will be at War at that world that's right because basically you you bring down when you shrink the pie people start fighting people all fight over the pie that you're basically condemning us to a dark dark world yes and I mean I don't think she knows that she's just a naive girl who wants to go along with whatever yeah going on yeah yes I don't think I don't think she's evil may she is I don't know but but but she's a symbol of something that is very evil and very dark that's right even if you take even if we take it abstract out from any person the metaorganism you know that is like the re way I think about this is think about like an antc is there does any ant know what they're doing no but there's sort of like a swarm intelligence there's a system yes there's s right so swarm intelligence that exists when like you know flocks of birds and things like that there's like a swarm intelligence where it it just like the cells of our body they don't they don't know what's going on or whatever but it kind of works together in a certain way right and in the same way that like communism and capitalism were like swarm intelligences in the 20th century that both you know they clashed in Korea and that wasn't like local politics that was like global politics you know where North Korea and South Korea were like you know these these forces of Good and Evil on both sides Clash right and that's what like wol versus Tech is to me like wol is like the Communist side and Tech is like the capitalist side it really is yeah right and so San Francisco is not about like local politics it's a clash of clouds this moral Clarity has been very helpful for me the last few years I I always kind of even even like myself who's very strong I've kind of hedged a little bit and I think it's just become very clar it's very healthy you you know you know you know you have those pictures where it's like the really dumb caveman and then person and then there's like the wizard yeah it's like the caveman believes in Good and Evil and then like the it's complicated it's complicated and then like the wizard like it's good and evil yes and then you actually need this framework to understand mon society and to be on this side of good I agree with that and I think that in particular like the um the grit thing here's here's the thing that's a synthesis of maybe your two views right which is um Greta shows that the woke mine virus or the metaorganism or whatever we want to call it right um that that is pulling resources from abroad right it's fighting a global conflict and it's doing for example it tries to get all the governments to work together to ban AI yeah the European government are like the source of a lot of this I think like really bad stuff that's right and and you know the worst is if they can manage to link up with the Chinese like the Nome Z kind of thing that you know they're flirting you you saw that thing right this is like this is like the European governments have always been friends with Putin and with China they're I think a lot of them are bribed by both Russia and China but it's like you know there's just so much econ money to be made that basically people will you know sacrifice today for tomorrow right and um it could be you know like uh but with the Nim Z thing that to me is concerning because that would link up two censorship regimes and make them cooperate where rather than compete in a bad way so my view is if woke has Global allies Tech can't think of itself as solely americ no we need we need to have Global allies as well we need Global allies you're you're helping you're helping build some allies out out here for us for for for American exactly for from India and from everywhere and work together with Indians 100% exactly and India is also fighting that same mind virus locally in India and so then once we all kind of realize it's like it's like how's that going in India like like is like do they have all sorts of like I mean they can't tell as much Dei nonsense as we do in the US for example you'd be surprised they have their own version of it and it's worse in some ways and it's better in other ways sometimes we see two business plans and one guy turns out to be I actually know the frster guy so no offense to the frster guy okay but like we we see two business plans and they're using the same words I'm going to build a social network but one turns out to be friends to One turns out to be Facebook you know yeah and this is actually really important because a lot of people think the words and the the execution are the same thing or the execution is easy given the words and it's not right and one of things I've observed is the same words that people will say in the US or especially in blue America they'll often say similar sounding words in India but it'll work in India and it won't work in in blue America like a small example is you saw the California highspeed rail 100 disaster hundred billion dollar to nothing but they're still arguing for more money online okay that is they're still arguing for it because they just think that the words I think it's they think it's like clicking something on amazon.com right so crazy it's funny they really don't they think if you have enough money everything else is just straightforward no problem or something this must be a combination of like corrupt people with really people it's like useful idiots helping the corrupt people it's it's I think it's both those but it's also something where I you know we both came out of I mean I guess me more Academia than you in the sense I spent more time in Academia right but in Academia there is so much emphasis on getting the the idear cor and some of IDE are genuinely hard some of the math the chemistry the computer science and so on and then it's thought that the business part of that is just ah me trivial right yeah and then when you actually go and do it you're like whoa this is far engineering operations are actually more of it and to say the core idea isn't important sometimes like if it's a cryptography breakthrough it's a math breakthrough sometimes it's like but the academics don't understand that the actual idea that matters is how systems work and how incentives work and how accountability works so those ideas are not even right when it comes to the government yes and the only way they actually learn it is you know it's funny I think you you and I have both observed this hundreds of times the guaranteed way to turn somebody from a socialist into like like how do you turn a socialist Professor into a capitalist CEO they found a startup because you have to apply what works and you have to take the ideas of a free society and apply otherwise you're not going to succeed pretty much yeah and you know what's interesting is there is actually common DNA between the social pressor and capaco you know it what it is is they both deeply feel they should be in charge isn't that good it's fair right that's trueir so what I've seen folks go from being you know marxistic leaning CS guys to founding a company they're like Ultra Libertarians like three month the moment they have to do some of the crazy paperwork and they go off of W2 and they go to you know all the crazy regulation stuff they're like I can't believe I would say this is well they realize these these bureaucrats are not that bright and then they realize systems not design correctly and and then they and then they realize the incentives is what really matters and accountability is what really matters and measuring things and iterating which your government does not do and cannot do without the ownership side of it there's just all these things you need that's right and that's why actually so if here's an education idea for you maybe you know you might think um K through 12 I think is just basically 12 13 years of jail for the most part right it's done terribly it's done terribly okay so one I've had for a long time is what if you and and you can do much more radical reforms of this but maybe this is a piece of it take the budget that you would have wasted on the last year of high school or whatever okay and instead just give it to the kids as cash and say um you've got a year to do a business and the reason is you know parents already spend a huge chunk of savings on their college education that's like that's like their like starter money or whatever to do something if instead that was their seed fund to go and start a business here's what would happen right 99% of them would fail or whatever number maybe 95 you know some them might do plumbing or other something else that's got lower risk which is fine we don't know the exact let's even say let's take argument 99% of the fail that failure is actually good and the reason it's good is all these kids by doing uh by playing basketball or by using you know like a musical instrument or looking in the mirror they could see whether they could be an NBA star or a great musician or a model or something like that right and so then they believe that those people in those careers have meritorious earnings yep but they think that being a CEO is just putting your feet up on a desk a lot of them don't understand what's actually going on they don't understand what's actually going on so just by allowing them just like you have fizzed they pick up a ball and they could see how good or bad they right there should be something where they get actual real experience at entrepreneurship get their CEO degree as their you know whether you call it CEO boss president or something like that you give them the money and the ability to actually run a company and for them to fail is the greatest education ever my friend uh Joe Lamont's one of the top guys in Austin and Tech and I know you got to know him at when you were there Trilogy and so he oh Trilogy guy I called alha and uh and they do something similar Al Alpha the kids learn twice as fast they're they're in charge of their own learning and they learn how to learn but he also gives them projects when they're young and they love and build businesses I've been on the phone with a few of these kids in Austin and met a couple of them who built amazing things in like nth 10th 11th grade gives them a lot of freedom to do which I think is very healthy to try and learn it's very healthy and the thing about it is it's win-win because if they succeed of course they're growing the economy you know yep actually you know you know Nigeria had this business plan competition and there's this guy who wrote he's like is this the most effective form of foreign aid ever I love it yeah okay because it's literally teach a man to fish and it was like it was like relatively small amount of money but they actually were actually starting businesses rather than just going for 4 most of USA is just such a waste it's so corrupt it's so dumb and you know what it is it's actually it's basically the same as San Francisco what they want are dependence they want pets and it's like they want to have more budget it's so racist right it's like you think these people and it's so funny because they're now they're on the left doing it is a neocolonialism yeah so they're bringing in their woke values and trying to do yes the same way we oppose our values in the past they're opposing today's value and it's and it's a worse version and basically they did they did this in India for many reasons for many for many years and they they basically want like brown pets you know and it's it's like the same mentality as like having dogs you know or whatever like at least at least of the India which was the very bad is they were trying to make money off of India too which was lat later though so that's the thing is once you move from Aid to trade that's the key right look is I think better try make money off them because then everyone somehow Le yeah exactly like like this is the thing is you know what one of my some of my pokes are provocative one like capitalism is the ultimate socialism okay why here's why the um if we take take the famous example of teal investing in Zuck in 2004 right putting 500k into Zuck teal was much richer than Zuck at that time but zuck's success meant that Zuck became much richer than teal but both became Absol absolutely richer right and that is something which charity could never do but investment can right but charity the guy who's rich will give like a few drops of money to the poor guy and feel good about it but he's definitely not going to make them equally as wealthy let alone like 100x or 10x is richer right but investment can do that and so so that's like one way in which what we're doing is actually building capacity go ahead no totally agree and you know you know back back back to Rel what we were talking about earlier I do think most of the things in the world we we do this and we invest and we build and that that's the way create value together there are some Frameworks in the world where once you're already successful I do think it's your duty to back yeah and not not even just get back but like fix the systems that other people can't fix there's things that you and I can fix that like other people like they can't begin to do it yeah so once you get this level and so and the question is how do you take the Frameworks we've learned from what works entrepreneurship world and apply to these other things and you're doing that with trying to think about new network States and and I I love it I want to help with that I'm also taking these AAL Frameworks and saying how can you reform how can I reform how can I build how can I take an idea that I know is going to help 100,000 people and how do we like use the same kind of tactics and smart people operations and go and do that and I think I think it's important a lot of us do these things I love that and you know the way one thing to your point is actually a lot of young guys looked to us for advice or what have you now that we're a little gray now exactly right so you know one thing that's funny about that is you know people will say oh go and do a hard startup swing for the fences and so and there is definitely value to that uh but it's also true that you you should have if you're if you're young and just starting out and you're on Star number one you want to have a realistic sense of what you can do as opposed to when you're a little bit older and you've got more Capital more distribution more connections you can do riskier or bigger things to some extent for me bology the way I see it is like and this is this is my point of view is that you shouldn't build a startup unless you're just like absolutely and nothing else to do I think the vast majority of smart people should go work for a high growth start because that's like the best risk reward by far and you learn like I was at PayPal as a kid like as a teenager pretty much and I got to learn so much from just being exposed to a few years as an intern that sort of thing and then like but then like I'm a little bit of a crazy guy who I'm like you know what I'm gonna I I really want to fix I really want to fix how our government works with defense and Intel and and the tech you know I was watching so you know you know the background think give the whole story where PayPal the bad chines Mafia Russian mafia we're stealing money right we're learning how to stop them and I got to know a bunch of these guys in government and the DHS and the FBI guy and it was clear they were just they're nice guys but way behind a tech what they were doing so I'm like this is an impossible problem I have to fix it and like and he start that's okay sometimes yeah know of course I guess the way I put it is if people are Ultra ambitious you want to tell them to be more pragmatic and if they're too practical you want to have them become more ambitious that's fair right for you kind of you yeah and and and and then but in general like you definitely do want to like just only do one of these things if you're just obsessed with it this I agree with because the startup is so hard I mean one thing is even the concept of do you know people say oh venture capital and we'll always say it's not an asset class there's I totally agree like right so so so like a startup it's not it's not an asset class really of startups in the sense of you know what was TL saying is you're not a lottery ticket right and um because you have it's so hard to do it because everything comes down to you that you basically you have to want to build something that you can't buy I totally agree with that I I'll add something else to what you're saying which is one thing I've seen especially for a lot of Indians because I'm mentoring more Indian kids and so these days is for many of them coming from like a background like total dirt poverty like that job at Google or something like that is like an exit it's already like an exit yeah which is why it's a lot harder for I guess some of those people I'd imagin to to do a startup right away you probably should make sure your family's taken care of a little bit some money to to raise them up that's that's probably responsible totally respons few years that's right so exactly so that's what I say I'm like look you know depends on your financial circumstances and the first gen like out of poverty there's absolutely no shame in that middle class get to stability you know buy a mom you know house or whatever it is you know right and then you know the second gen or or maybe you fire 10 years exactly that's right that's right so it could be either your kids or it could be you fire 10 years leader then you swing for the fence one of my one of my big mistakes on a company I was invested in is is that and I I'm not going to say who because it's it's proba private but I I the guy I didn't realize his mom was on welfare oh no and and and like he was trying to take money off the table and normally I think you shouldn't let someone take a lot of money off the table and then people try and ultimately you know ultimately like he ended up selling the company too soon because he needed to get the money to help his mom and if I and i' known that and if I second I could secondary could have help and and like is I think it is really important both as an investor is and as a partner to like know what their circumstances are there's nothing wrong with like doing something to help your family when they're in a tough situation it's actually our duty as investors to help people do that that's part of our job as partners yeah it's it's interesting it's one of these things where the right amount of secondary takes the pressure off the founder and allows them to just work harder and don't not they have they they they don't have the they don't feel like oh I need to sell kind of thing and it's like and sometimes it might not be them it might be the spouse too so yes which the things I've learned which you got to get to know them and the spouse yes often in charged yes especially for the older ones you know they've got it especially for technical guys yeah that's funny um so let's see other things um covered a lot uh gosh um all right so what in the world are you looking at right like so I'm looking at a lot of small countries I'm I'm looking at a lot of I'm looking at a lot of applications of AI to transform the productivity of the economy that's that's that's my job let's talk about the red State and purple State strategy pretty high we're talking about that earlier right so a lot of these you know these Washington DC regulations I call it the 640k of compute should be up should be enough for anyone bill you know the the executive order that just came down go ahead yeah no it's unbelievable stuff which like sale and some other people they tweeted like we're going to regret that we did this to ourselves right with the hard cap on compute okay this is so crazy imagine doing that with like you know I had a teacher in high school who was like 56k is more than enough for anyone for connecting to the internet right and and she really believed it and this is this is of course you know like Bill Gates didn't actually say this but it's like the famous illusion or so the hard cap on compute is like the stupidest like the only thing that's good about it is it's actually really explicit you know lots of the regulations you can deny that they're going to stop progress or whatever oh it's just paper just this is like the definition of dough yeah this is exactly it is literally a brick wall which says you know you cannot it's like a speed limit but on compute right you imagine this is enforceable without Congress actually like passing a law she wasn't saying I'm sure there's going to be suits I'm sure there's going to be all kinds of things that's at the federal level okay but the the states have their own interests we need free states free states exactly there's fed States there's free states you know so to speak right pretty good right and so the free states which can be red States can be purple States can be independent Blue States they would essentially do the calculation that wait a second uh this is really good for reducing medical costs for reducing legal costs uh AI is really good for automating all this medical billing and paperwork and other kind of stuff uh this can be really really valuable for us um and so therefore we need to have Sanctuary cities for technology where we just say we're going to defy federal law on this compute as much as you want in Texas it's a free state compute as much do you want in Florida right you know the come and take it Flags or the accelerator die right yeah and so then I've got big one of those in my house the come and take it flag from the you know the history of Texas that's right a big Cannon and there's a one with it with the there's a version with the GPU in the in the form of a cannon it's really good right that's great so I mean you do have to be a little bit careful I do think that that the Supreme Court will probably end up having to rule on this because it a spring cor I think will actually rule in our favor on the freedom side but but there is like a very powerful Army that that's tied to federal government that you that you don't want to actually have to like you don't yeah that's right but on the other hand if you if we look at Sanctuary cities drug laws gun laws abortion like some of those things did go to the Supreme Court like but within the US there's been such a fragmentation and fracturing that states are kind of doing their own thing and saying sue me to the feds right which is what you mean this is how the world's supposed to work thater government's not supposed to be deciding most of these things are supposed to be siging in the states exactly make America States again you know or like the 10th Amendment restoration and then abroad the thing that's interesting about this is we talked about like generic AI for you know India and so on place like India they didn't enforce copyright patents and so on as much and so that's why the generic drugs industry built this huse drug industry we could have generic AI where you can train on Hollywood movies you train on copyright material actually you know that's how Hollywood started Edison held all the patents for early technology for motion picture it was to broke it early on yeah because he was in New Jersey and he was on the East Coast so they went all the way to the West Coast huh okay and they did their own thing right and um this guy Neil gabbler has a good book on this like uh like an industry of their own or something like that it's about how Hollywood was created right an an Empire of their own I believe is the book and so now we just do that again right we basically say look you know that's how Hollywood was built it basically broke these in a because 3,000 miles was a pain for Edison to send his guys all the way across the country India's probably good an analog to this these days right there probably are things India should be doing where they don't I mean some of the copyright law is just ridiculous 90 years Disney kind of things just a thing where the C where the owners of the content have done that just want to milk it forever right exactly and I think now we've got um the uh we've got enough examples of where the overly aggressive enforcement of copyright I we know what open source gives us gives you security it gives you all these kinds of good benefits um the other thing that's interesting that's kind of related to that is the uh some of the data stuff so do you know what India stack is no okay so imagine if stripe was done by the Indian government that's kind of what like UPI is like a piece of it or if Google login was done by the Indian government so that's what like other is now these things have their flaws and so on and so forth but they do work and they work for a billion people and they work every day and they've kind of come up from nothing in like five or 10 years which is actually really amazing so the same guys who are working on India stack and other are working on something called Deepa which is like a data access thing and you know because there's all this stuff about data privacy and whatnot and in the west it's really either uh a you have EU style bureaucracy and cookie laws or B you just access all the data or whatever right and you just have some some clickthrough that gives you all the permissions so India is trying a model where it's an API approach where if you um you know like like you can just programmatically get access and train on all the data that you want there it's as opposed to saying no laws on privacy or stupid bureaucratic laws are saying we recognize this a problem we want to have the lightest touch possible solution that balances all interests yeah and in particular what they want to do is they want this is the crucial thing they're coming in with the mindset of we want to make this work we want to make these huge swats of data available for training on AI with the consent to the people and potentially with compensation for the people interesting okay so it's just something to track because India is big enough that it can be an influential kind of thing if it works conversation is going to be hard to figure out for these things because there's so much stuff that comes from well so this where get because because they've got UPI they've already got the payment information for a billion people so you could It's Kind it's a little bit like what x is doing with like the direct deposits into your account they just track a bunch of stuff and aggregated and just drop it into your account and it's and it's interesting because like you think you think that like training on all the data of everyone just in the open area and that everyone who was alive previously might be enough to do a lot of things exactly that's right so you know one of the things also interesting I think of India you know people think of India as a market and I think it is a market but I actually think it's also potentially a digital Factor you know like lots of physical stuff is made in China right yeah but a billion Indians can do a lot of training data there is it is a digital Factory I mean I I have factories in India that I use for aw some companies right digitally yeah so all the labeling and stuff like that that's what I think of as digital Blue Collar right all the tapping and labeling and so and so forth can be done anywhere interesting and you can make like a do if you can make a dollar a day on that that's massive for India and for places like that right that will level you out of poverty training data is you know there there's infinite hunger for training data right yeah of course then the question is can somebody without education do the training examples and maybe maybe they can maybe they can't BL up to seat we should throw out some things and just get your reaction to them or okay 3D printing 3D printing I think it is actually finally getting to be useful for different areas of just in time inventory it's not quite there yet but it seems like the next five years is going to be a big deal for a lot of things yeah I was hyped and went to the gardener trough and then kind of coming back you're starting to see some cases where it could be pretty useful people are using it for too much with the time they do it but for very specific kind of small small parts for inventory and Manufacturing I think basically the us is going to become a major manufacturing H has already started to grow a lot the last few years if you look at the numbers and this is going to be one part of the solution okay relate to that robotics this is something that we're talking a lot about you're seeing like working AI kind of boring lame robots that doing all sorts of things with they're driving not lame with they're driving around not I mean we don't have the hands that are easy to move maneuver we don't have the stuff that's there yet a lot of people are trying AI should be able to do this so I a lot of us think in five years this should be a really big thing uh I'd love to meet the the people who are figuring it out cuz it's hard yeah it's hard I mean uh like Boston Dynamics and Tesla are putting in some effort here and Amazon has some humanid robots but it's not you there I wonder if this is one of those where like a startup could actually beat the big guys by really kind of rethinking with a genius like even just like getting the hand right and like getting the hardware right to then allow us to train in software and open it up to there's hard is missing so it's funny me and Gary tan actually just funded an Indian guy who did who's built this amazing robot hand I'll show it to you it's called clone third is El Salvador and Bell a bell you know obviously I care a lot about the principles of how to put people in jail when they're bad I think it's very important now you know the you know but you I'll say like the there's this thing about humanology where at the darkest times when when when many people have lost all hope that's where you see like the real true character of a that's where you see like who's on the side of the darkness and who's on the side of the light and this guy is clearly on the side of the light yep now is what he did appropriate for the US no it's not not in that form like we need to keep our principles we need to keep our state we need to not go into a totalitarian type of authoritarian approach but he probably did need to do what he did in order to stop the murders in his Society because he was he was a lawless Society on the edge and should we be more in his direction of putting bad guys in jail or causing murders yes yeah and I think the way I think about it is um that Society was at War like the it wasn't like a peace s Society these guys face tattoos were terrorizing the at War you do what you can to win the war and to save lives and he did exactly he did America has many problems in some ways I'm morally at war with things that are broken but we need to approach them in a more principled way and America needs to me in a shouting light with a functional principled system so so yes we should be putting bad guys in jail no we should not be like Breaking All the Rules to do so in America in his Society probably was necessary uh related hober mle I am very excited about jaier mle he is uh I mean listen no one knows what's he's got to do EX I it's going to work out but just the way he describes things the way he explains the corruption the way he explains like just how we basically need to like I mean the the I love the aera video right getting rid of all thect departments we need to do a lot of that in the US like literally we need to fire like everyone in the pr of Education in the US they just not exist it's I'm not saying I'm not for Education I'm just not for what these bureaucrats are doing yes it's it's a waste and there's like and Department of Labor probably should get rid of the whole thing too it's very sides it sued paler for a total [ __ ] reason after Peter spoke yeah have literally Peter T spoke Trump's convention and this freaking thing sued us and then like Elon became an enemy and this thing went after Elon oh yeah yeah yeah exactly there's a bunch I mean are there some good people there we sure there's some good people there is it politicized yes and and do do we need them to be doing anything no right I me it's funny I I meet people all the time who are like in the bowels of embassies there are some good people on sub embassies in the US they are doing some good things around the world the vast majority of it is like government Andover stuff between our different departments and it's it's like such a waste it's all meta work not not even meta work it's meta it's Meta Waste and so I think we desperately need to move things to the dire Department like Argentina is like was the wealthiest countries in the world 100 years ago has now has 140% inflation like thank goodness the one like him got in charge does he have enough power to do what he needs to do see but yes that's the question I don't know if he controls the legislature but amazing amazing guy that's right I think it's it's sort of similar to you know Asia went through so much communism so much socialism they developed antibodies to it they finally learned it's about to do here exactly and so South America Latin America is May starting to build this is why Florida is a great state because a lot of people from Cuba all experien how terrible communism exactly that's right Suarez you know he actually did a whole thing with the you know victims of Communism there a few more uh space you know I think that space is really critical for defense I'm a big fan of the space force unfortunately I'm working a lot in defense and we need to think about that very bullish on starlink I'm waiting for it to be installed on my plane it's obnoxious thing to say but I'm very excited for that um you know I think it's I think I think space is over hiked in the Venture Capital world where too much money has gone into things that are not yet economic now I kind of like that they're doing that because they're accelerating the future and it's really excited so on the side of it but I think it's tough as an investor I I would love I I would love to to build colonies on Mars build colonies on the moon and and do more out there so over overall very positive awesome last one longevity there is a ton of stuff happening we haven't talked about bio very much i' right obviously I invested in a ton of Bio infrastructure companies built one of the largest bio manufacturing companies in the US actually I didn't know that one what's that yeah resilience bio we called it national resilience originally but the scientists said the national is too nativist but we okays we've raised a few billion dollars we partnered with uh with all sorts of countries because they needed us our help for mRNA we do gene therapy Cell Therapy we're doing gp1s out of it um so I'm I'm very very bullish on like this real revolution of biology all the tools what begin to tell I think longevity is very scary like just what we're learning and like how aging is going to change in the next 10 20 years it's very positive overall I think we're going to live a lot longer I think we're in a strong position overall there and I'm very bullish on it awesome dude this is great good to see you B thank you very much all right see you soon Back To Top